MMP Ep 330: Camping with Kids with Kali of Seed & Gather

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Hi friends! Welcome to the Modern Mamas podcast. We are two modern mamas here to inspire, empowerment, self love, deep physical and spiritual nourishment, holistic health, open minds, and joy, no matter your journey or perspective. I'm Laura of Radical Roots. I'm a certified CrossFit trainer, certified nutrition consultant, and mama to [00:01:00] Evie Wilder and Indie Bow.

I love outdoor adventure, good food, especially sourdough. And mindful movement. And I'm Jess of Hold the Space Wellness. I am a Level 1 CrossFit trainer, a licensed and certified athletic trainer with a Masters in Kinesiology, and Mama Tiberian Camille. I love food, trying new things, creating art, and being a perpetual learner.

Please note that while we're here to provide advice and insights, we aren't medical practitioners, and always recommend that you check with a trusted provider before implementing any changes. Thanks for joining us. We're so happy you're here. Hello, welcome to another episode of the Modern Mamas podcast.

I am super duper excited today, as lame as that sounds, but I mean it, super duper because I get to spend this time actually chatting with one of my closest friends all about something that I love. And it's going to be good. I've been looking forward to this one. We've had to do some shuffling because real life.

And now I finally get to say welcome Kaylee to the podcast. Hi friend. Hi, I'm so excited to be here. Thanks. Oh, excited. And what's so funny is I, you're one of [00:02:00] my closest friends. And the thing is, I never say your last name. And so right here and now, can you say your full last name just so I can make sure that I am saying it right?

Yeah, you're not the only one. It's Bayer Riesel. Bayer Riesel. See, I, I knew that I've said that, but not often. And it's funny when our relationship and our friendship blossomed. First online, and then now very much in person as well. Many camping trips, many adventures, all of that. But I still it's like last names or how often do we use them?

So anyways, without further ado, I'm welcoming my dear friend Kaylee to the show. Depending on the day or hour, she is wearing one of these many hats. Mother, wife, supervisor, entrepreneur, athlete, Potter, farmer. And this summer she realized they were approaching having camped 40 nights with their daughter Mabel, who I know and love, and she just turned three.

And so Kaylee decided to put all that experience and knowledge into a camping with kids guide that is now accessible to you. And this is brand new. This is like one of the first bigger launches of your [00:03:00] guide that I've had a chance to see and I'm so excited. Kaylee lives in Northern California. In the foothills near Lake Tahoe with her husband, Jake, also a good friend of ours, and their three year old daughter, Mabel.

And I know there's much more to it than that to your story. I want you to share more of that through your own words in regards to seed and gather, your experience as a flower farmer, that entrepreneurial endeavor, and then transitions into where you are now. But before we get into all of that. A quick icebreaker question, though there is no ice between us.

It's just kind of fun to kick things off this way. So right now it is October. Six, and we are transitioning into fall. And so I'm curious to know what is your favorite thing about the shift from summertime to fall? And also with the unique nuance to the fact that you've for so long been a flower farmer and this season you're shifting gears.

So with that thrown in the mix as well. What do you love about this shift? Oh, so much. I guess [00:04:00] if you love it. I know personally that you do. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love the seasonal shift, the bounty of our flower and vegetable and so many different crops are coming into such bounty or are just peaked in their bounty for us to have such delicious meals.

The seasonal reminder to start to slow down and look inward and rest and get into that. And then something I'm excited to be embracing this year is I generally am more cold than hot as far as temperature wise. And so I've tried to embrace my Scandinavian roots and. At least once a week, at least on Sundays from now until the winter solstice and hopefully beyond I'm jumping in our local lake down the street from us and just doing cold plunges at least once a week and trying to do cold training and wearing less layers as it gets colder out to just help my body just embrace it and [00:05:00] not shy away from the cooling of the seasons and whatnot.

So that's a little bit of on my mind about the seasonal change right now. I will not be doing that though. I will say I've been definitely embracing this seasonal shift and like I've been wearing sandals and my body feels after three years now living here three years tomorrow. Actually, we've been living here.

I would agree that I feel that I'm feeling a shift in terms of becoming more acclimated and enjoying this, the cooler climate. So I find myself in a tank top and sandals when it's 60 degrees, which that never ever used to be the case. So I love that. That's really cool. Sweet. Okay, so cool. Now let's dive into a little bit more about your story from your perspective, and you can really start wherever you want in terms of the beginning, but tell us a little bit about Seeding Gather, about your journey there, and about what brought you to this season now of creating this guide, where you are in motherhood, and I'm sure, [00:06:00] and I want to talk more about what motherhood has taught you, and the transition from being a very outdoor focused Human.

And then now also bringing in the component of being a mom alongside that. But before we get into all of that, just a little bit about your story as an entrepreneur, a human, a person that where it brought you to where you are now. Yeah. Thanks, Laura. I feel like this section of my life, this chapter of my life really started over a decade ago and moving up to California with my husband and.

Learning how to organic farm on a vegetable farm and really be immersely. Just immersed in that for years and surrounded by such bounty and just such delicious and nourishing food. And then I decided to pivot and go to grad school at Berkeley to get a master's degree in public health and focus on more local and regional food system work and food and ag policy.

And just like I was in this, it felt like utopia of just [00:07:00] incredible food and so many people aren't and just trying to. work on more of a system level of how can we get more of this food accessible to more people. And yeah, I spent a lot of time in the vegetable, fruit, vegetable farming, and then policy and sustainable agriculture space.

And I still am to this day. I work at a non profit that works statewide in California to help small farmers. And I just always have so many ideas coming. Laura, you know this in our friendship and all the ideas I share over the years. And it's a great thing, but also sometime. It goes against better intentions that I need to go down and rest, but in 2019, I decided to start a flower farm, a small business on the side to working a full time job and having a relationship and whatnot.

And that was called seed and gather. And I just really loved helping people connect to nature and connect to plants. And so I mainly dried flowers and then. [00:08:00] Made these different wreath kits that had different wreath designs and then people would order a wreath kit and it would ship around the country with all the flowers in the box and all the supplies and color pictures explaining how to do the steps and videos online.

And that was a really fun learning experience and entrepreneurial growth experience for me and then. That happened pretty well and was growing steadily for a few years. And then I had our, our daughter Mabel in the fall of 2020, like a year into the business and had to go through some adaptations to navigating that.

And then in the fall of 2021, from the fall of 2021 to last fall of 2022. I went through a year plus of really bad hives, getting these chronic hives over a large, all over my abdomen and back and legs and they'd be really itchy and I'd have an itchy throat and like night sweats and lots of doctor visits and tests and.[00:09:00]

different types of medical support, conventional medicine, alternative medicine. Long story short, it was determined that being around the dried flowers was one of the triggers for these hives. And yeah, I slowly, about a year ago when that was figured out, tried to figure out how is it we're going to pivot seed and gather.

And they had a kind of a slow pivot. And this past spring, I did a lot of spring flowers and tulips and not dried flowers, but like fresh spring flowers and tulips and things. And then late spring, this spring, I just decided, you know what, land access was becoming a challenge and the amount of time that we all only have 24 hours in our day between everything else that's going on and wanting to be present for Jake and Mabel and other activities, I decided to put seed and gather, as I said, into a chrysalis for who knows how long, I'm not going to forget how to grow flowers and grow plants, but it's just, Needs to be put on pause for this phase [00:10:00] of life and who knows in a few years, in a decade, who knows.

I hope to grow lots of plants and vegetables and flowers one day, but just not today. So I don't know if that's, uh, And I love the chrysalis metaphor. I know we've talked through that before, but I just think it's so beautiful because it's not, you're not closing it up. You're just, or for good, it's not closing shop.

It's just a pause in the season. Shifting gears and I think it's a beautiful transition because one of the reasons you're doing that is to have more time for Jake and for Mabel and for leaning into joy, which again, this is a conversation we've had frequently and in I know one of the things that really brings you joy is being outdoors.

And camping as a family and as you and as we shared in your bio, you realize with Mabel still being so little, you've camped 40 plus nights with her and I know you've got another trip coming up in just a couple days here. I love the transition to a little bit more of that. And as our listeners know, we as humans in general, we wear many hats.

We have. Many different paths, different journeys, depending on the [00:11:00] season. And so flower farmer, vegetable farmer, at least in your own yard and Jake's career and all of that. And then now also outdoor enthusiast and mother and all these things have come together into this one, like beautiful symbiosis really.

And so can you share a little bit more about your transformation? Through motherhood and whatever capacity you want to share and how I think one thing, let me bring this full circle to a more quick, clear question. A lot of people think perhaps that once you have kids, you have to change your life around that transition, maybe let go of some of the passions.

And so you very obviously didn't stop flower farming or stop your love for gardening, growing, farming when you had Mabel. And you now I'd love to talk more about how you very obviously didn't stop your love for spending time in nature. So can you share a little bit more about that transition for you into having her and then how you traverse those waters of still maintaining your passion for being outside.

And instead of working around her [00:12:00] kind of brought her into that passion with you. Yeah. That's very intentional. Yeah. I first found the Modern Mamas podcast in the spring of 2019. I had to do three cross country flights to the East Coast and back and within four weeks of each other. So I thought it airplane a lot.

And I think I binge listened to many episodes and that month and then since then have continued to listen. Yeah. I remember listening to some with Liz Wolf and Megan Garcia and like. Just talking about the Enneagram and This really was trying to having a lot of conversations with Jake about when we wanted to enter into the parenthood and to be frank, I was the one keeping what, what driving my feet on it.

And yeah, I think just like hearing so many different experiences, yours and Jess's and guests that you've had on and experts in different things really helped me get to the point that at one point on one of those slides, I just vividly remember [00:13:00] after listening to an episode being like, okay, like I've.

I'm trying to have everything be like perfectly lined up. We hadn't bought a house yet. We weren't quite in the place of our careers where we wanted to be like, and I was just like, well, I can keep making these excuses, but the reality is I, if I just Like embrace that I can't control all of this. I can't control any of this really and and just embrace that unknown Then all of a sudden it just felt incredibly free and I think listening to the podcast helped me recognize that it didn't seem as Scary and daunting anymore.

Yeah that I think the definitely the modern mamas podcast helped me feel quote unquote ready And yeah Later, a little over a year later, Mabel was born. That was the transition into motherhood and parenthood and the important role that the podcast and then connecting with you and yeah, just growing and relating to other moms that I also didn't know a ton of friends that well at the [00:14:00]time when, before getting pregnant and right after getting pregnant that had kids.

And so that also was part of it. And now since I've met so many other moms, it's created like a really amazing network. And then what was the second part of your question? Oh yeah, keeping like, just stay, keeping Mabel involved in activities that I like to do, right? We like to do. Yeah, and most specifically, leaning into, we can continue to, to navigate into the conversation around like camping and outdoor, because that can be a big hang up for people to have kids and it's going to be so hard.

To do it, to go camping and to get them outside and all of that and talking more to having her and bringing her into that passion versus putting it on hold until she's older or whatever it is because I know you guys started really soon as we did. Yeah, thanks. The day before she was born, I was out harvesting flowers and made bouquets.

And I was at the time doing a like Friday, every Friday flower pop up flower stand. And I went into labor in the mid, early morning on Friday. [00:15:00] And I had Jake bring all of the flowers outside. And I remember like having a contraction, like leaning against my farm. And getting the flowers set up for the day.

And luckily there was some left for our midwives to take when they left. I'll never forget that either. I remember hearing that and just like smiling ear to ear when you told me that story. It's so good. I know. Oh my gosh. I was like, I'm not in labor that. Our strong lead. So we need to get the flowers out.

People need the flowers. Flower joy needs to be spread. So, yeah, I guess it just, and then I obviously took things very slow after she was born, but I remember bringing like a little portable, small like baths on that thing. Or I guess it was like the stroller attachment. I don't even remember. Out to the field and having her just sleep like.

Six feet away from me on the edge of the field while I would be like harvesting flowers when she was like four or five weeks old. So I guess just leaning into to like, you don't need to do separate activities for your kids, especially from our experience in the first three years of Mabel's life. Like we just include her in what we're [00:16:00] normally doing and she like loves it, especially because all these activities are outside.

We find it much easier to parent outside than indoors. And there's always going to be hard moments, but there seems to be fewer and they pass quicker when you're outside and there's less mess to clean up and just really embracing a little bit of dirt and kids don't need toys outside. They just balance on logs on the ground and dig with rocks and a rock is also not crystal and they.

Have such creative open ended play so really just yeah, Mabel was with me last weekend helping get the little field farm We still have left ready for the winter in the fall and helping She's I'm the loader and she was like loading the dead plant material into the compost pile and stuff and into the cart yeah, I just I guess just The first thing is just try, you don't think, Oh, I don't think my four month old will cooperate and do this thing with me.

We'll just try and have low expectations and try and [00:17:00] quit while you're ahead. And like slowly it builds on things. I remember so many days bringing Mabel to the farm for seed and gather and just being like, if I could just get like 20 minutes that like we could just do things together, like that would be a win.

And then that would happen. And then all of a sudden it would be like 45 minutes. And now like. She's helping me legitimately, helping me like do tasks and things that's fun. So yeah, I guess that's that. And then specifically with camping, I don't know, like a better, like family activity with young kids than camping where you're outside, you have You're just open ended play everywhere, like nature exposure, I know you've had Ginny from Thousand Hours Outside on, like if folks aren't familiar, I highly recommend looking into Thousand Hours Outside organization and movement and trying to get your kids outside as much as possible in all weather conditions.

Yeah, I guess I'll stop there, any follow up questions? I love it. Yes. Hello friends, Laura here popping in real quick to rave about my [00:18:00] current favorite product from Paleo Valley. Have you tried their whey protein yet? Not only are they absolutely delicious, And deeply nourishing, but bonus points because they also have colostrum, which heals, repairs, and gives our bodies the extra boost we need for motherhood, work, working out, all the things.

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Don't wait. Go grab yours and save 15 percent with paleovalley. com forward slash modern mamas. Enjoy! I think people will be on board with the fact for the most part and maybe this is new for some That once we're out there and we're with the kids and they're in the dirt That and if this is new to you, I can [00:19:00] very much vouch for this.

You get the kids outside Though it takes some effort to get there. Things are easier There are no walls to bounce off of and we've seen that firsthand. We've camped together And it's just, it's magic, right? There's so much space and they're, my little one, everyone here knows Indy. She's constantly, hold you mama, hold you.

We're at home. She just wants to be in my arms. We are outside. It's, I'm not even there. She's so content. So I think most of us can probably get on board with that. If you can't just give it a try, promise, trust us, it's gonna be great, but it's the getting there, right? I think that's where people get pretty hung up.

So I would love to talk a little bit more about what's the transition. So first of all, what was camping life like for you before having Mabel? Maybe we can do a first, like to start off like a compare and contrast. What would have been the main differences? And then I wanted to dive more into your guide, why you made it and how it can help.

Those parents who are like, yeah, cool. I'm on board. Let's get the kids outside. Let's camp. That sounds great. But there are a whole lot of logistics that go into making it [00:20:00] happen. And your guide is going to be the answer to that. So first off, compare and contrast before and after having kids, main differences, main similarities.

What can parents perhaps expect if they camped before having kids and they have been holding off since, at least in terms of your journey? I also want to preface it by saying that I did not grow up going camping. I probably went camping twice before I turned 22 or something like that. It was not something my family did growing up.

My husband, Jake, did do a ton of camping, so that was helpful in having some You know, a lot of guidance on where to start with things. So camping before kids for us looked like a lot of car camping. We did do some backpacking of like carrying everything in your backpack and hiking into somewhere more remote and camping.

But mostly we did a lot of car camping, sometimes with friends. In various weather. I know I remember one real ridiculous moment when we were actually in Kauai and Hawaii and we have been camping around [00:21:00] Kauai car camping and it rained torrentially bad one night and at like midnight, we like just an Packed up all of our stuff and threw it wet in the back of our rental car.

And I was like stripped down into the front underwear and it was just midnight. And we like went to a final laundromat and dried all of her stuff. So I'd say before kids camping was a bit more last minute and not as many like contingency plans thought through or whatnot. And now the main difference.

Post having Mabel is we've really been able to refine our systems and we have like camp gear that's just on a shelf in our shed that is solely camp gear, like invested over time, slowly, like year by year into, okay, let's get camp silverware just for like, for camp and let's like. Get these boxes to help hold like our dry pantry goods and things like that, to just really systematize and make it easy to load the car, cups of water.

Yeah, and then really trying to prepare as much [00:22:00] as possible. Like the Camping with Kids guide has lots of camping prep lists for packing gear, for packing clothes, for packing. For just, there's actually a list that's the, the quote, the don't forget list, which has like a shorter list of things that you make sure you want to make sure not to forget that are key.

Yeah. And then one big hurdle in like just getting out there for people also is like finding where you're going to go and how do you like reserve the campsite and stuff and I know since the pandemic there's been a lot of challenges with that because that there's like very few like first come first serve you just show up the day of that you want a campsite a lot of campsites are now booked through recreation.

gov and there's a long section on recreation. gov and the guy with like screenshots and like other There's Make reservations, especially for more popular places where you need to use certain things to increase your chances of getting a campsite. Yeah, so that's a few tidbits that are covered in the Camping with Kids guide, but we can talk more about that [00:23:00] if you'd like.

Yeah, I think it would be good to give a little bit more insight to that, but also I want folks to go grab it because it's, you can, I think giving more insights into what they'll find there will be great. But I think also just like having a better idea of what it was like before versus what it was like after.

And I think one thing that you touched on is that before maybe it was a little bit, I don't want to use haphazard for lack of a better word. You just, let's just go because the two people, a couple, you can just wing it, whatever. But then once you have kids planning, it becomes really important because it's going to simplify everything.

And so having a plan. And like you said, having your gear, I know that's been huge for us is we have two camping cases. We've got a rack on top of our car. So, especially with Rusty being gone a lot in the summer, and I'm camping by myself with them, I know that I've got all my sleeping stuff in one, all my kitchen stuff in the other, if I get those cases on top of my car, I am go ready.

Then it's just a matter of throwing some, some clothes in our bag, getting our toiletries together, and getting food in the cooler, and we're off. And even down to the food, I think you talk about cool food lists or good options to bring there to keep things simple. [00:24:00] Yeah, definitely. Yeah, the, the, the ebook is over 30 pages long.

There's over 40 photos like demonstrating how we systematize things or, or done things or just camp fun moments to help maybe help you visualize how you could do this with your family. There's a food planning template that has like breakfast, lunch and dinner and different it's set up in a way that it's you can print it out on your computer and be able to write in what are the items you need for each meal that you need to pack?

What are the ones you need to buy? What are the meals? There's different breakfast, lunch, dinner and snack ideas for different meals that you could do that are like fun camp meals. Yeah, there's other sections on water and bathroom logistics at camp. Because you need to make sure some campgrounds don't actually have potable water at them.

So that would be really important to know and to bring either a five gallon water tank with you with water or get a few gallons of [00:25:00] water at the store. Bathroom logistics is another thing, especially with people with young kids. They might think, Oh my God, I'm like in the middle of potty training. I can't go camping.

No, actually, that's a great time to go camping, friend, especially with the little portable, small little potties that you just can lift the, the little, um, bucket where the, where the, where they go potty and yes, go camping at your potty training because we can just have naked from the waist down or naked time and accidents are less weight, less to pick up and yeah, so there's a section about that and I also know that sleep is a big hang up for folks wanting to go camping either Daytime nap sleep anxiety or and or nighttime sleep issues So the guide has a whole big section on Naptime tips and tricks and ways to go about that successfully and for nighttime sleep.

And we have gone through all sorts of variations of daytime [00:26:00] nap plans and nighttime sleep plans with different gear, but not all gear is necessary. There's Amazon page with links to various things that I can share with you that you can put in the notes too. That I created for some helpful things along the way.

Basically, you just have to have an open mind and attitude to, to navigating it. But if kids are camping and you're outside and you're going and you're doing things and even just being outside, like we, we found sleep has been pretty simple. Obviously, there's been moments, but people are, kids are tired and.

Especially if you're a little bit more flexible with, okay, bedtime is not at this rigid 7. 30 p. m. Like, the sun's setting a little later right now. We're gonna have some mores, like, we're just gonna do bedtime more like 8. 15 tonight or 8. 30. If you don't fight an earlier bedtime, just because that's what happens at home.

But if kids are happy and content and just like enjoying looking at the [00:27:00] fire. And there, we haven't been like, Oh my God, that was a terrible idea to go to bed 45 minutes or an hour later than normal. It's worked out really well. So there's pages of, uh, had sleep related stuff. I know where you guys have probably navigated that yourself, especially with you doing a bunch of solo camping too.

I've done it all from, especially with naps and stuff. I've done just carrier naps and go on a hike and run all the days, have her sleep in there. We've done tent naps. The thing, the beautiful thing about camping that I've, in my experience is that kids get so wiped out because they're outside, they're in the sun, they're in the elements, they're, and it's like the most beautiful kind of exhaustion, like the best kind, not overstimulated, but exhausted in the best ways.

And so what we tend to do is I will keep my kids up till whenever I'm ready to go to bed and that's just what works well for us. We bed share at home. And so it also, that also makes camping really simple for us because we just have a full sized. Camping mattress and a double wide like sleeping bag and for she was really little we just would bring sheets and comforter and set the [00:28:00] camping mattress up like a bed and that made it really seamless transition but yeah we just keep them up late they sleep in a little bit more or maybe they don't they'll nap better they get home and they I don't know they sleep is one of those things where I know for some people it's very hard and I want to empathize with that but I just if you can get them out there you They're so tired and then they're sitting around a fire and they have that like very natural kind of like it or getting back to our ancestors and then natural circadian rhythms, the sun goes down, they're going to naturally get tired and they might go to bed a little later, but it's going to be for the most part.

Okay, here's one thing I want to say, and this is a caveat, and I know you'd agree because we've had this conversation if you can. Camp more than one night. Right? Because the first night is probably going to not be great sleep. It's going to be a little rocky. You're going to be finding your rhythm, your nighttime rhythm, your morning rhythm, your sleep situation.

And I remember the first time we camped with Evie, she was three months old. No, she was six weeks old. And we [00:29:00] almost went home. The first morning after the first night's sleep, I was like, this is hard. I was up all night. She was like gassy because I'd eaten a bunch of kale salad that my friend brought and it was like affected my milk and so she was like, so gassy and and then we're like, no, let's stick it out.

Let's do this. And it's good for all of us. And the next night was the first night she ever slept through the night. There you go. Yeah. And I just I realized that it takes a lot of effort and work to get there. And if you can, at least camp for two nights and just try and stick it out in the second because sleep might be rough the first night, they're going to be so tired that the second night, I promise it will be better.

Yeah, and just like setting up camp and taking down camp, like to have a cool day where you like you wake up and you just can be at camp and then you do your whole day and then you have dinner at camp and then after the second night you wake up and take down like, and okay, that's a weekend, right? If you go somewhere Friday, Saturday.

That like more accessible to folk. Yeah. Yeah. I would echo you a [00:30:00] thousand percent to try your hardest to do your go for two nights because it's just, there's just more time, especially if you're going with another parent, there's two people going, then you can. Jake and I generally try and if we're going for a couple of nights or more have like, even just an hour that each of us can go, like, I'll go for a little walk by myself for an hour, um, go for a little mountain bike ride for himself or something to like, to switch off and have a little bit of like adult only outside time, but that's just like really hard to do if you're just going to go for, for one night.

So yeah. And the sleep element too is, I think, yeah, so fascinating and camping with you guys and camping with other friends. It seems to be a bit of anecdotally a thread of first nights are not as smooth as people would like and then the second night seems to go a lot better. Yeah. All right. Yeah. 100%.

Couldn't agree more. And I learned a lot. I've been camping with my kids for almost like for six and a half years now. And still, I learn something every season and every summer [00:31:00] in the difference between camping with one versus camping with two and camping solo without Rusty versus camping as a partnership.

But certain things, no matter what the situation is, remain the same. Have your gear ready, know what you've got, know where it is, don't, if you can have it in, like, in cases or in bins or whatever, like, just ready to grab and go, put it in the car and know that it's in there. Not use your... Kitchen utensils when you're camping, have a set of kitchen, of camping plates and camping pots and camping everything, even if you're just gradually building that over time or getting it from a garage sale, go grab some silverware at a garage sale, it doesn't have to be like specifically like stainless steel, fancy camping gear, you can just get and have it ready to go is pretty huge.

Yeah, I think that's a. An important note for sure, just get your gear and check out this gear guide because you've got everything in a simple place, like ready to rock, which is awesome. Yeah, and I would, I recommend in the guide related to what you're saying too, especially if you know a couple other families that are interested in doing this, but none of you like really have the gear.

[00:32:00] Potentially look at each family, like each put like maybe 200 in or something and like you collectively buy some gear that you can all share because it's like probably unlikely that you all want to use it like the exact same days, especially if it's just like two other families. So that might be a way if you're like, I have nothing or even just start, especially if you have like family members asking you, what can you get your, their kid, your kid or your kids for like.

Birthdays or holidays or things like that, pull things from the year list, like headlamps and like camp sized kid chairs and things like that, that make the experience their own for the kids. Like Mabel doesn't have a ton of like specifically her own camp gear, but she has like a small little camp chair and like her own headlamp.

And that really, I think helps her feel like really a part of it all and having her headlamp on and going to help collect firewood and stuff like that. So slowly over time, you can really build it up. And we just try it. Yeah, systematize and make it fun for everybody and create traditions. Like our family, we, we have a camping [00:33:00] journal or every campsite we go to, we list some details, one to five stars, how, like, how, like how many stars we rate the campground and the campsite and the, our, each of our favorite memories and any other highlights for activities we did or something, it's just a one page little thing and we put a picture with it.

But that's a tradition. And then every 10 nights Mabel camps, we take a picture of her holding like 30, 40, 50, like holding a little number to just also, I think that's going to be our version of the back to school pictures that people have, like a feature. Ours are just going to be like her holding numbers of camping over the years.

Yeah. I love it. Hey there, friends. Pausing this episode to share a bit about our wonderful friend Brianna White, a fantastic real estate agent based in Bend, Oregon. She's also a wife, mama, and a member of this awesome Modern Mamas podcast community. She has a super unique approach to real estate, which includes using her mobile Airstream bar for open houses and housewarming parties.

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Now, let's dive back into our episode. Okay, I want to address a couple of a few questions that we got specifically from listeners and some of this we've already chatted about, but I guess to be a little more specific on it. So we talked about sleep and every single one of these. At least two of 'em thus far have sleep questions.

I think that's the biggest hangout for people. Sleep is just a hard thing. We, I think one thing that's been empowering for me as a parent is that sleep is gonna be hard. It's gonna be seasons, it's gonna pass. Mm-hmm. , but camping, it's gonna pass. You're gonna camp for 2, 3, 4 nights, whatever it is, [00:36:00] you'll go home.

It's not forever. And so a big part of camping with kids is gonna be a perspective shift. One question I we got is how do you handle getting them to sleep when it's so bright out for so long? Because I know, especially where we live in the Pacific Northwest, In July, in August, it doesn't get dark till 10.

I keep my kids up till 10. I keep them up till it's dark. And we sit around the fire. We have fun, and it's a long day, and it's great. And if you're hanging out around It's not like you're going out to a fancy rest If you get a sitter, right? You're staying up late with friends. Because you're out. You're all there, you're hanging around a fire, you're making s'mores, maybe having some wine, but you're all there, it's safe, you're around, you're in nature, and I've had Indy just fall asleep on my chest while I'm hanging with friends around the fire, but for me personally, I would rather not spend the time and energy going and trying to get them down, just so that I can come back out and be social.

It comes back to that conversation around, I didn't, I don't, didn't pause my life to have kids. I brought them into my world and I'm fine with them staying up later. And it just happens pretty naturally. And we go to bed with the sun and we maybe [00:37:00] wake up a little earlier than usual with the sun. Then we go home and we catch up on sleep and everyone is fine.

So that's how I handle it. I know that's not the right fit for everyone, but. When the days are longer, we sleep less, and that's just, and it seems to be, I think, biologically, that's very normal. So I'd be curious to know your take on that. Yeah, well, definitely, yeah, definitely have embraced what you just described.

Also, some tips people can keep in mind is, think about, you could camp earlier in the spring before the solstice, especially if it's like your first or second trip, try and go in May. Late April, May, or once when it's not quite as long as day of daylight hours or now in the fall, this could be some great camping time of the year, especially that see beautiful fall colors and the weather can be so, so different in different parts of the country right now, but it's also getting dark a lot earlier.

So camping in the solar seasons, if you're really concerned about daylight, there's also, I have a few links in. The Amazon store and then my guy, there is Coleman makes a [00:38:00] blackout tent that I have not personally used, but I know friends have, and it actually is really dark in there. So you could borrow or get one of those, it's been reasonably priced.

Also, you can, we don't have it really close up with Mabel through her light. So we've done a variety of different, usually she does at this point because she's older, stays up with us until that time, but when she was a little bit younger and it would be darker, but. We would, or getting dark, we would put her in the tent and do our nighttime routine and then.

The tent basically became her crib or her room to her, and we would leave her and be like, okay, good night, and then it would still be like dusk out sometimes, but she would just like talk to herself and fall asleep in the tent because it felt like it was just like her room environment, even though, because you're just so tired from a day of activity, and you just don't know until you try, and sometimes it doesn't work, and we just would pull her out and hang out near the fire.

Yeah, those are some other thoughts on that. Beautiful. Okay. And then another one we [00:39:00] got was along the same lines and we touched on this, but in case there are any final thoughts we want to share, when does the baby nap and how does nighttime sleep work? So I shared how we handle nap. What, how do you, I'm okay with flexing nap when we're out and about and adventuring and camping, but sometimes I read them.

So when we did five nights on Lopez Island, most of the time it was like a kind of on the go nap in the carrier. Okay. That kind of thing. And then one of the days I was like, she's really tired. I also need a down day. So I just, I got, she fell asleep without, because I can read her. She's ready. So she slept for an hour and a half, maybe two hours in the tent.

And we don't have a blackout tent. She was that tired. And so I'm curious to know how you handle that. Yeah, a little bit of what you just said. And then also from what, around a year or so, toddlers, babies generally are transitioning into just one nap a day, usually like midday, early afternoon. So we would just take advantage of the fact that it gets light earlier and we're all up and have breakfast and focus on like our one activity for the day, like right after breakfast and like going to [00:40:00] do some that hike or go to the beach or whatever it is.

So then by 11 or 12. We would, we generally would get in the car to leave that activity, and we've done a lot of car naps during the middle of the day. I know some people say, oh, my kid never really sleeps in the, in the car, like refuses to. Have you tried when you're camping? I would try a few times. Yeah, and then that gave us a great time to explore that area and maybe scout an activity we were thinking about doing the next day and we would go drive nearby and check out a different we are going to go to or, or something like that.

Or even if the weather was right, just parking in the shade somewhere and sitting nearby next to the car, one of us reading a book and the other would go for a hike or we would just hang out. So we definitely have done a lot of car naps over time, but also we've done some where we call make a nest. And so like sometimes we'll be out doing things or like hanging out near a lake or something.

And if it wasn't too hot and if there's a shady area, sometimes I will be like, can I make a nest? And we would just like make a nest with towels or, and like her [00:41:00] lovey and stuff and like off in her own like space, like nearby. And she sometimes would fall asleep, just like having her own nap, being right around everybody and just like to mellow out and things like that.

Yeah, and the hiking pack and the carrier, like you mentioned, we've done that as well. And Sometimes they're not quite as long as you think. Oh, and also hammocks. If you're set up at camp and you have one of the portable hammocks or you have a hammock that you like brought to be at a beach or something.

Recently at three years old, Mabel took an hour and a half nap laying on me in a hammock. Yeah. Just. And it's a double winner because I have found sometimes I know I can be the type that's let's do stuff. Let's go. What are we doing today? What's the plan? Let's adventure. And the one day on Lopez Island, when Indy just fell asleep in the tent, I was like, I'm not trapped.

And I embraced it. I read my book. I just, it was so good. And so similarly, like the baby falls asleep on you around the fire or in a hammock or in a camping chair, just [00:42:00] try if you can. And I know I can empathize because I know it can be hard to embrace that slowdown. But it's so good for us. So good for us all for our nervous system.

It's so good to just. Just be and just look around and I fell asleep for a good time. Yeah It's our family joke right now But in this season of life our family has to leave our house and go camping to to relap on the second day of camping usually the second afternoon like all three of us fall asleep for some amount of time or just like We'll lay on a blanket under the trees and like just be all just chill and stuff And we're like we can't it's impossible for us to do that at home we're just like too busy with projects and things and like going to meet people and stuff, but Really, I think camping, especially in this phase of life, if you have, you have little kids, it can really surprise you, I think, in that it can bring so much pause and slow, slow down.

Totally. Couldn't agree more. It, we're the same way at home. It's like home projects and tasks to do, and my G list is sitting there, but getting outside helps my whole [00:43:00] system, just like my whole nervous system feels like it takes this beautiful, I don't know. Just regulate, then it's magic. There's science behind that, too, for sure.

Okay, have you backpacked? Because we have not yet backpacked with kids. I'm waiting until Indy is old enough to at least be able Our plan for next summer is to do a short one. Maybe like a mile in. I already have a few spots in mind. And then gradually working towards that. So the question is, if Is it possible to go backpacking with a baby versus car camping?

And I would say, yes. But just the reason, know your kid, know your gear list. I think a lot of the same stuff applies, but you just have to understand that like now you're packing in food, gear, everything, and going to have to carry the baby. So tiny enough to be in a front pack so you can still have a backpack.

Yes. We never did that, but, or wait until they can at least not need to be carried. We also have places here where we can bike in. And so we're planning on doing maybe some bike [00:44:00] backpacking. But I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this. Yeah, we, so yeah, we have done a multiple day trip where we biked in, where Mabel sat on, and I have the links to the different bike seats that we use, bike seats that are front handlebar mounted, so she's in front of us with, at the front of the handlebars, and that has allowed us to then have a backpack, backpack on our back while biking.

Which you can't do on pretty bikey routes, but we did a mellow one on the coast of California and that was fine. And we've also, there's also a canoe, using a canoe to basically canoe packing, which allows you to go further and carry and bring more stuff, but not have to, yeah, the weight is air on water in a canoe, so that's an option.

So I'd definitely encourage folks to think outside the box, but yeah, backpacking in general, like Asprey and there's a few other brands that make carriers that you can have the kid in and then they also have 13 year more liters of storage for things, but that's just tricky as far as, [00:45:00] yeah, carrying another person carrying the rest of the gear.

But if you have other friends that don't have kids yet or family members that don't have kids, I would highly recommend. If you're doing if you want to like if you're so really set on a backpacking trip again, just like two nights and not just maybe a couple miles in and having other adults there that are also responsible for a little kid to help spread around like them carrying maybe the food and things that.

Would help offload a little bit from you as you're doing it. But yeah, there's that sweet spot. We're in the, I think the awkward zone for ourselves personally. I'm having a three year old right now. She can, she's getting good at, at walking. So I think next summer when she's about four, we'll, we'll be good time to do a backpacking trip with her.

Because otherwise right now that's a lot to carry her and, and an Osprey pack plus here. So I think there is a little bit of an awkward zone with backpacking. If you don't feel when they're like 18 months or younger and you can carry them in the front, like you said, then there's a little bit of a weird gap [00:46:00] until four or so, and I don't know if it would make the most sense.

I think if you are an avid camper, experienced camper. Jumping to backpacking is like a fun next step. If you've never camped, probably car camp, 10 camera time. Awesome. We are rounding out this recording and I want to make sure that I offer some space for you to leave any like final insights, tidbits, and then also to share a bit more about your guide and how people can access this.

I know you are also offering a sweet deal to our listeners, which I'm super grateful for. Do you have one final piece of wisdom or something you want to make sure that. Everyone leaves with. Ooh, that's good. A good question. I think just one of our, one of the things mentioned in the guide is just like embracing your inner child.

And I think that is really important to having a great time doing this and just. Learning to hike at a slower pace and to play and to just have no need to be on a rigid schedule and to just be outside and explore Right, right. What's right in front of you and and be so present in the moment. I think that also [00:47:00] is really a key benefit of camping.

It just really brings you to the present. So much of life right now is like, what's the next thing to plan for? What's the next thing to logistic I need to deal with or whatever? And like camping just really helps you be so present with the people, your family with that you're with. So, yeah. I highly recommend if you're like curious about it, but you haven't tried yet to really explore the idea of getting camping as soon as possible and just take small steps with it.

I hope that this guy can get more families out. Into nature and really try to break things down. Like I said, into fundamental on camp pairing for your trip and reservations and recreation dot gov and packing lists. Lots of details. I can't build and like a meal planning template and different meal option, water and bathroom logistics.

A big section on camp activities and various things and ways you could structure your days to make activities work. Lots of details on sleep, like we talked about, a section on like tips, tricks, and like troubles troubleshooting and, and all sorts [00:48:00] of like resource links to different, different resources.

So, love it. Yeah, that Eric can, or can everyone access the guide and then how can they save? I know you already shared this with me, but excited. Yeah, so the guide can be found at seedandgather. com, so it's seed, S E D, and gather. com, and there's the guide, you buy it, and then you automatically get sent an email with the PDF of it that has lots of live links in it that you can, hyperlinks that you can click on, and there's also an option For gifting the guide.

So if you know somebody who you think would really benefit from this, or maybe it's having their first baby and you there are an outdoorsy person and you want to give this to them as a gift that their baby shower instead of a onesie or whatever, there's other than option to do that, to give it as a gift as well.

And then for modern mom of listeners, I. This group has a special place in my heart and wanted to give you all 20 percent off. So if you use the code modernmamas, all one word, all [00:49:00]lowercase, there's a promo code at checkout, you'll get 20 percent off for the month of October. Love it. So awesome. Go grab it.

I've seen it. It's awesome. It is something you can keep in your toolbox forever, have it on your phone, get ready to access and make this process simpler, overcome any of the challenges that you maybe have paused you. Or if you're already camping, help to elevate the experience and simplify the experience for every season to come.

So can't recommend it enough. Go check it out. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your wisdom and your story with us. And I can't wait to camp with you next summer. Yeah. Thanks, Laura. I'm so awesome to be on the podcast. I really appreciate all that you and Dreth bring into the world and thanks everyone for listening and then hopefully you'll get outside soon.

Yes, let's do it. I'm going to go get my little one out for a quick walk, then nap. Sunshine, nature, fresh air. It's magic. Indeed. I love it. Okay, well, enjoy your day. Enjoy your camping trip, and we will chat [00:50:00] soon. Okay, thanks, friend. Bye, everyone. Thanks

for listening to our podcast. See you next time. Bye.